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Doomworld: I especially liked the gargoyle monster that flipped you off when it finally died. Is there a story behind that? 
Joel: Yeah, I was in Rick's (my brother) recording studio recording the flap sounds and fiend wake up sounds, and we got to do the death sounds, and just started messing around, and I yelled that through the mic, and we laughed our asses off, just cause it sounded so funny. So then we started talking about it would be cool for the fiend to flip you off as he dies, saying "aaaahhhhhhhhh f**K youuuuuuuu!!!" so I just changed the death anim to match the vocal, and it was just too cool to take out. It was freeware, and aside from that, the project stayed fairly professional. 
All Hell's Breaking Loose had lots of Dehacking tricks in it. I remember the super-Cyberdemon which had rocket launchers on *both* arms, as well as a helicopter from which evil marines would jump out in order to kill you. Were these tricks worked out beforehand, or did they just sort of evolve slowly? 
I had the graphics done, but had to find a programmer who could pull those things off. Mike Gummelt (before his employment at Raven) started the project and got quite a bit done, then he got busy doing other things. (duke3d and quake just came out) and I went through a few guys, and finally found a guy (Ted) that could finish it. 
How did the final product compare to what you had originally planned? 
Well, I originally wanted more levels but the net help was just becoming harder to find, with exciting new titles like quake and duke3d coming out, summer was here, etc, so I just scaled the thing down and finished it. 
Are there any other funny stories you'd like to share about this TC? 
Well, aside from the fiends death sequence, I used to get a lot of shit from everyone around the shop, and my girlfriend for staying up till 2 am every night working on it. I was pretty much obsessed with making games. 
Do you think that Doom is reponsible for you now working on a commercial game? 
Yes, very much so. Before Doom, I always wanted to make games, but never knew how or where to start. Then I found out you could actually make add on levels for doom, and spent an entire weekend getting my first room to work, with this really un-user friendly interface, but it was soooo cool. Then I found a better doom editor, and started making deathmatch levels. Then I started messing with replacing textures and skies, then characters and animations. Then came the TC. I got tons of emails from people all over the world, thanking me for making it, and saying how cool this or that was it confirmed my belief all along that I could someday make my own game. Shortly after All Hell, I did some duke and quake editing, then got the acknex engine, worked with that for a year, meanwhile building our team of guys, texture library, software, all the machines, and then we really got going in Dec 97 when we licensed the amp engine by slam software, and gained support from our banker. 
I've noticed that a lot of workers at 4D Rulers have the same last name as you. Big family, huh? How's the atmosphere at work? 
Yeah, well, we have always worked together in the sign company and other businesses, and we played in a band together as well, so we are used to doing everything together. Its pretty cool here at 4D Rulers, we give each other shit all the time, and provide plenty of criticism to each other. We scheme together all the time on how to make things better or cooler. 
Have there been any elements of Doom that you've tried to capture in Gore? 
Yeah, we want Gore to be scary, and have some fast opening doors for that moment of surprise with a powerful double barrel. Large monsters like the cyberdemon will be seen in Gore, and playability on a wide range of systems. 
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